WEBVTT

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Lynda Wayne: My name is Lynda Wayne. I'm the project manager for NSGIC. You all probably know Susan Buto, who is the USGS Hydrography Data Acquisition Lead, Steve Aichele, who is the Hydrography Management and Planning Lead. And just on screen comes Dennis Pedersen.

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Lynda Wayne: He is your, NSGIC liaison to the federal 3DNTM Working Group for the 3DHP component.

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Lynda Wayne: The meeting is being recorded, and all of this information will be in the NSGIC Knowledge Base. The slides, the recording, and the resources will be in the NSGIC Knowledge Base under 3DHP FTN, so if you want to follow up on something, please go there.

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Lynda Wayne: USGS. Steve, will you or Sue be talking to us today?

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Steve Aichele - USGS: Sue's gonna start.

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Sue Buto - USGS: Okay, I will start. So just a quick data acquisition update. We are kind of working on our finalizing the FY26, data acquisition about

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Sue Buto - USGS: 90,000 square miles to date. I will apologize to Josh Greenberg. We are missing a project in Washington State, a cooperative agreement. Our map maker is out with a sick family member, so he wasn't able to get me a new map, so we'll get that updated as soon as possible. But just visualize a big orange blob in southern Washington, courtesy of Josh Greenberg.

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Sue Buto - USGS: So we have 16 3DHP DCA projects. You can see these on the map, picked out in the orange color, and one project that's, being fully funded by the state, contracted through our GPSC, contracting mechanism.

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Sue Buto - USGS: And then another federal partnership in Oregon, courtesy of the Forest Service that we're partnering with them on. We are working on the FY27 DCA. We'll hope to have more information out to you guys as soon as we know what our timelines are for it.

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Sue Buto - USGS: I think that's all I've got, if Steve wants to hop in with his updates.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: Sure. So, on the product side, we're getting the Q3, service update ready. There'll be 5 new work units, coming out in that release in Alaska, Ohio, 2 work units in Massachusetts, and 1 in Tennessee.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: We're also, gonna have the flow network derivatives integrated into the service attribute table. You may recall the last quarter, those were a separate table you had to download and join.

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Bernie Doud: A lot of people.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: And then, also anticipating releasing the Hydraad 3D for Points, API and web interface. Those are, in testing right now with, quite a few people from the Forest Service, and a few state folks, and, so far, so good. I guess is the story there.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: So that's… that's what you can look forward to in about a month.

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Bernie Doud: months before.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: trickle out on…

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Bernie Doud: event.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: not on the web, but will be, formally announced on July 28th at the Hydro Community Hall.

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Lynda Wayne: Steve, excuse me, we're getting some voices, so if you're not on mute, please mute yourself. Thank you.

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Lynda Wayne: Go ahead, sorry.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: Nope, I… that was it, just that, a month from today, or a month… well, next month at this… at this time slot, on the 28th, we'll have a, Hydra Community call and sort of formally release all this stuff.

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Lynda Wayne: Any questions for Steve or Sue? Comments?

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Lynda Wayne: Encourage.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: Pick whatever we can get.

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Lynda Wayne: All right. Well, thank you both, appreciate that.

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Lynda Wayne: Just as a reminder, because we are new back to the project, I'll go through these quickly. This is a cooperative agreement between NSGIC and USGS, and its purpose is really to engage stakeholders in the derivation of 3DHP data. We want to have… by doing that, we enhance the consistency of the data and conformance to standards, and thereby make

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Lynda Wayne: The data products, more usable.

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Lynda Wayne: Some of the specific objectives is we're going to do some knowledge via outreach and dialogue. We want to support state planning. We have guidance documents, and of course, we're always… we'll have discussion topics and can provide direct assistance as well.

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Lynda Wayne: And a lot of what we do is talk about strategies, best practices, shared resources.

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Lynda Wayne: that help everybody in supporting the management quality and application of their data. Real quickly, our primary activities with our work plan we've developed is communications and outreach. We have stakeholder engagement. You're part of this right here.

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Lynda Wayne: And we'll talk about this in a little bit more detail in just a second, but we're having the, I think we've talked last time… well, I'll talk about it now.

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Lynda Wayne: Fourth Tuesday of each month, something is happening. So it'll either be a 3DHP FTN interest group in the months listed here, or an district for the state hydrography community calls.

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Lynda Wayne: We do have one scheduled in August, and that's gonna be a follow-up to their ESRI meeting.

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Lynda Wayne: And then also, as Steve mentions, the USGS Hydrography Community Call is in April, July, and October, and we feel fortunate that we were coordinate… able to coordinate with both of these communities so that you can just mark that fourth Tuesday of the month. Now, where… knowing where to go and what to do is up to you, so mark your calendars. We'll provide a little bit… I personally just set up three different repeating,

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Lynda Wayne: calendar, events, so I don't know if that helps others.

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Lynda Wayne: Alright, I am going to go ahead and put this in the chat.

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Lynda Wayne: So you've got the meeting schedule, and you've got the link. I see that Josh is on. Josh, did you want to… any updates as far as your Esri meeting, your meetup that's coming up?

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): Just to say, if you are involved with hydrography mapping in your state, and you're going to be at the Esri UC, please join us Tuesday the 14th, 11.30 to 1230. We will have lunch provided, thanks to,

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): our sponsors, and I… I'll… I can… oh, you put the details, awesome, you put the details in the chat. Perfect. So that's about it. If you have questions or concerns, feel free to reach out to me. And this is something… this will be our… I think this is our

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): fourth, third or fourth, that Jane Schaefer Kramer, the Hydro Steward of California, and I put together. It's a casual sharing of…

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): Progress, and getting to know people, and making contacts with other states that are also working on hydrography mapping.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): So, hope to see you there. Thank you.

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Lynda Wayne: Steve says in the chat it's a fun group. You know, it's not metadata, but hydrography group's pretty good.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): We're a fun group, yes.

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Lynda Wayne: You are a fun group.

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Lynda Wayne: Other things that we plan on doing is supporting, planning and implementation. As I mentioned, we have a planning guide. We want to promote the use of data and applications.

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Lynda Wayne: And also provide feedback to the federal program and data development feedback, and that's been a good conversation that we've had over the years with USGS on these projects. Any questions about why we're here, what we're doing?

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Lynda Wayne: What the objectives are, Please feel free.

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Lynda Wayne: All right.

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Lynda Wayne: Well, the main reason I've brought you here today is to talk about coordinating 3DHP education resources.

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Lynda Wayne: And we… I'm gonna throw out real quickly, this is something that was suggested. We did an inventory of topics at the beginning of the year. If you weren't able to see it, this was suggested, in particular by the folks at Tennessee, and I…

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Lynda Wayne: I don't know if Suzanne… I'm sorry, yep, Suzanne's on.

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Lynda Wayne: Nope, wrong Suzanne. Anyhow, Dennis, I see that you're on, and if Suzanne is on, would you like to kind of, just kind of tell people why leveraging these materials was important to you as a state, and what you're kind of hoping we can achieve, through the interest group?

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Dennis Pedersen - TN: Sure, yeah, at a high level, you know, it's about realizing that we've made a…

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Dennis Pedersen - TN: we, being the, you know, the feds, USGS, and state partners are… have and going to be making a significant investment into 3DHP data products and

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Dennis Pedersen - TN: It would be a travesty for us not to educate

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Dennis Pedersen - TN: Our user base and potential users on the value of these data products.

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Dennis Pedersen - TN: And so, in our state, in Tennessee, I've tasked Suzanne White, who's my technical lead.

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Dennis Pedersen - TN: for hydrography. She's gonna be my point person.

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Dennis Pedersen - TN: On developing some curriculum, and… Outreach, to state users, as well as our broader GIS community.

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Dennis Pedersen - TN: on the value of these datasets, and how they can be integrated into a variety of use cases. We're just at the beginning, stages of development.

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Dennis Pedersen - TN: So there's still a lot of, unknown as, you know, we don't have a lot of the details worked out just yet, in other words.

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Dennis Pedersen - TN: But, very excited to be part of

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Dennis Pedersen - TN: working with Lynda and this group on helping move forward.

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Dennis Pedersen - TN: And providing some insights into some educational resources that we can share in the community.

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Dennis Pedersen - TN: Suzanne, do you want to add anything to that?

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Suzanne White, TN: I think you've got everything, Dennis. One thing I would like to add to that, though, we are using, a group of folks that will be an advisory board, and they're, subject matter experts, and, their fields that are using,

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Suzanne White, TN: border resources, GIS data already. So, they're gonna be the ones that will be most likely, the users of this data, and will have the use cases and whatnot, so…

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Suzanne White, TN: I'm hoping to lean on them for their expertise, to develop out training modules.

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Dennis Pedersen - TN: Great, Lynda, back to you.

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Lynda Wayne: Thanks, very good to hear this activity going on, and I know one of the issues you did is you're happy to move forward with this, but there's no sense you doing it, and Montana doing it, and…

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Lynda Wayne: New Mexico doing it, so I… so it would be… if I'm understanding… and we'll talk a little bit more about this in a minute, but the idea that we could, share this activity with others and get their input

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Lynda Wayne: And then, Sue and Steve also supported this as a project activity, so I'm going to throw it to USGS and see how the interest group effort can best support the federal 3DH program. At some level, you know, what would you like to see the effort achieve, if… as part of the project?

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Steve Aichele - USGS: Well, I think the…

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Steve Aichele - USGS: I think the trick is to… it's just like with the data, it's build once, use many, right? But in this case, it's the tools.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: So… There are… we're building a…

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Steve Aichele - USGS: We're building, collectively, building a standardized national framework for hydrography data.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: But as, you know, as you mentioned, there's no reason for Tennessee to develop a tool to do, to do, I don't know, Clean Water Act reporting, and then have Montana write their own tool to do it, and then have New Mexico write some other tool to do it.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: Or, you know, any of the other things that people want to do with hydrography data.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: The other thing I think that's kind of…

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Steve Aichele - USGS: remarkable here, worth noting at least, maybe there's the same thing, is that we can put

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Steve Aichele - USGS: we have historically had, you know, the NHD kind of moving in its… its column, and the WBD in its column, and the NHD Plus

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Steve Aichele - USGS: both medium and high-res moving in its respect, its column there. And these things never really… they each had kind of distinct user groups and distinct bases, distinct applications.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: One of the things that's happening in 3DHP is we're really bringing those functionalities, bringing that core data together.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: How do we bring those different user communities

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Steve Aichele - USGS: together such that they can share, share expertise and, you know, and leverage what's been going… what happened in the NHD world to be able to apply it to, 3DHP, or what happened in the NHD Plus world to be able to apply it to 3DHP.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: You know, if it's… if you build a data set and no one uses it, you know, does it make a sound, or something like that?

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Steve Aichele - USGS: Right, and so we…

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Steve Aichele - USGS: we want… I mean, part of… there's more to this than just putting blue lines on a map. That's, you know, necessary and useful, but not sufficient. We want to have

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Steve Aichele - USGS: A library, an inventory, a community, where

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Steve Aichele - USGS: tools and techniques and expertise can be shared so that, again, so that Tennessee and Montana and New Mexico, you know, don't have to relearn it each time for themselves.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: I think that's all we got right at the moment.

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Sue Buto - USGS: Yeah, I think I'll just, echo both Dennis and Steve, actually. Dennis and the idea that

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Sue Buto - USGS: Having these types of education resources available, you know, to this whole community helps to drive the value proposition for these data, because it's not always

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Sue Buto - USGS: you know, as obvious to folks who are outside of the hydrography community what these blue lines on a map mean with respect to more than blue lines on a map. You know, that there's functionality behind them that's really critical to a lot of applications, and we can start to highlight those applications and show people

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Sue Buto - USGS: How to use the data and how the data are used.

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Sue Buto - USGS: I think it goes a long way to sort of enhancing or enforcing the value proposition in the data. And then, you know, Steve said it, having resources, and you just said it too, I think, Lynda, having resources

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Sue Buto - USGS: that the whole community have available to them, so we're not repeating things, as noted, you know, Tennessee shouldn't do something, and then Montana come around and do almost exactly the same thing, and repeat the effort. If we pool our resources, we know that we can

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Sue Buto - USGS: do great things and get a lot farther than if we do things individually. So, I think this is a great, use of this cooperative agreement. I appreciate

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Sue Buto - USGS: You guys taking this on.

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Lynda Wayne: I want to point out that, both

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Lynda Wayne: result, and I believe it's… is it Dave?

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Lynda Wayne: Babro?

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Lynda Wayne: have contributed thoughts. Zolt, do you want to elaborate on what you were talking about, building on the idea of a position paper?

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Lynda Wayne: Hello? You can sing. Yeah, you're there!

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Zsolt: Great, I had to unmute. I don't know if I have much more to elaborate on that, other than I thought it was a good question last meeting.

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Zsolt: And, regardless of whether, you know, the state is interested in adopting a new surface waters map.

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Zsolt: with or without regulatory conditions, you know, there's a variety of ways to, you know, acknowledge a new map.

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Zsolt: I thought, you know, good deliberation on that by some of the policy leaders in this district might be good.

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Zsolt: And, something good might come out of it, like, some advice to all states on options.

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Lynda Wayne: I think that is an excellent idea. We'll talk a little bit more about the steps we're going to take, but I am definitely keeping a list of topics.

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Zsolt: Yeah, I didn't know if it fit into this discussion or later in the agenda, but I made a note to make sure I spoke up at some point today, Lynda. Hope you're doing well.

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Lynda Wayne: Thank you, and thank you, I asked for input, thank you.

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Lynda Wayne: And, I'm sorry, is it Dave? Do you want to speak up? Dave, tell us what you're thinking?

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Lynda Wayne: Perhaps not, or maybe there's a…

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Lynda Wayne: So, I've captured both of the notes, and again, those are… Danielle! Danielle! Danielle, very good, thank you. That helps. Danielle, I've captured your notes. If you want to contribute, please feel free to come off a mic.

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Lynda Wayne: If you're good with your notes, that's okay, too.

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Lynda Wayne: Okay, thank you. Well, I've captured this topic. So, I want to… oh, Tom, your hand's up, please.

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Tom Mueller (MassGIS): Yeah, first off, I…

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Tom Mueller (MassGIS): just for clarity, I was a college professor for 25 years before I took this job as Deputy Director of MassGIS, and the one thing I would say is as we start to build these educational

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Tom Mueller (MassGIS): Curriculum, please don't forget that introductory level.

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Tom Mueller (MassGIS): just using, I think, and Sue and Steve, you guys used to do a great job at USGS with the NHD education. It was like a newsletter, I think, came out, like, every other month or something, with… and I know you're probably not staffed to do something like, you know, continue something like that.

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Tom Mueller (MassGIS): But I think sometimes we get this data, and it's… we go at such a high level that you're missing that next generation of GIS professionals, who then when get into the workforce, they've heard of it.

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Tom Mueller (MassGIS): They put the blue lines on it because they need to buffer something, but that's really all they're doing. And I'm thinking more of, like, in a basic GIS course.

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Tom Mueller (MassGIS): really, you know, the students are learning how to buffer, how to do all these things. Why not use 3DHP as they… and that will allow them then to learn these… what this… the power of this, as I use… as I like to say, and again, I'll age myself, sort of that Arthur Fonzarelli coolness of this data, right?

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Tom Mueller (MassGIS): But it will also…

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Tom Mueller (MassGIS): But I think it will also then get it out to the rest of our community. I can tell you that when I was a professor, we were talking about aerial photography, had students go into it, and all of a sudden, I was getting feedback from students that their parents were like, I didn't know this data set was out there. This is great. We need to push that Pennsylvania does this regularly, because this data set is all… it's sort of bringing out the community, being sort of that cheerleader.

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Tom Mueller (MassGIS): But again, I will also quote by saying, I have a 17-year-old who tells me I'm wrong all the time, so I could be wrong on this, but that's my two cents.

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Lynda Wayne: Nice.

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Lynda Wayne: I'm gonna drop back to Suzanne real fast in, with Tennessee, and Suzanne White, and see…

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Lynda Wayne: Suzanne, was that… had you been thinking along… when you're talking about use cases and, you know, the subject matter experts you've compiled, were you thinking initially that your program would be at an introductory level? Like, what is this data and how can it be used?

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Suzanne White, TN: Yes, absolutely. Even things, such as…

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Suzanne White, TN: I don't know if you'd call it simplistic, but I kind of do, cartography, you know, how best to display this data and what, you know, different ways to display this data that, maybe we can… we can

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Suzanne White, TN: display with this that we couldn't with just the 2D data. You know, so… so some very basic things and, very short tutorials, and I'd like to have,

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Suzanne White, TN: tutorials in place that could be as, like, a train-the-trainer, and maybe, you know, if there are graduate students or something like that that are interested in teaching off of the materials that we've pulled together, that might be a way to involve them, too.

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Lynda Wayne: That's great.

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Lynda Wayne: There's a question in the chat, from Josh. Are you intending to focus on Tennessee? Are they going to be nationwide? Is it going to be, you know, a national topic with lots of Tennessee examples? What are you thinking? I know you're early in the stages.

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Suzanne White, TN: Yeah, well, the team that I've been pulling together as far as an advisory group are all from Tennessee, just because that's where

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Suzanne White, TN: I have access to and… and know people and know what they're doing. So, I didn't necessarily intend for it to be topics limited to Tennessee, but since we've got, about three-quarters of the state

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Suzanne White, TN: already tasked, to get 3DHP done. I was… I was… that's… that is my focus, but it doesn't… I'm not intending the training to be limited

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Suzanne White, TN: two topics for Tennessee.

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Lynda Wayne: So that is why this dialogue is really helpful, because as Tennessee goes through their process, if we give them feedback and information such as, you know.

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Lynda Wayne: can it be done for general information with Tennessee examples? Then when, Josh, you in Washington want to pick them up and use them, you can plug in your Washington examples, or, you know, Virginia, or whatever. So, again, I think that's part of why this,

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Lynda Wayne: Exactly, Tom. Why this dialogue and the sharing of activities is important. Great.

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Lynda Wayne: Any other comments or questions about why or when? I was going to go through what we, kind of, the perceived task and get your feedback on that.

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Lynda Wayne: All right, I think, with regards to the task, and again, I want to keep this reasonable, you know, sometimes we get really big ideas, and then…

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Lynda Wayne: We get stuck in those really big ideas. I think culverts kind of taught me a lesson, so…

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Lynda Wayne: I think culverts have taught everybody a lesson. But what can we reasonably achieve? What is something that this group, as a whole, with many arms and legs, what can we achieve? And, you know, the first thing that came to mind was.

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Lynda Wayne: just establish a registry of existing materials or activities, like who's working on what, with some kind of a description. At the same time, identify needed topics. I think we had a couple of those suggested here earlier. We need to make sure we touch on this. We need to be, you know, maybe a position paper, something like that, on policy, and…

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Lynda Wayne: and… and authoritative data.

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Lynda Wayne: So I think those are the first things, is what's already out there, and what do we want to talk about, or what do we want these training materials to address?

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Lynda Wayne: And then, I think, solicit participation… participants to develop, on the needed topics, and not sure how that works, other than discussion. We'll get down into details later, but the thought was in general, like, hey, is anybody working on this, or anybody have interest in working on this?

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Lynda Wayne: We as the interest group, and we as the 3DHP FTN program can support the development of these new materials. We can enlist contributors, we can facilitate discussions.

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Lynda Wayne: And if somebody wants materials review and feedback, again, you know, I think Tennessee is doing what Tennessee wants to do for Tennessee, but, you know, if there's some point where you guys would like feedback on your materials from the group.

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Lynda Wayne: We could facilitate that as well.

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Lynda Wayne: And of course, we would definitely compile and publish descriptions of those available resources.

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Lynda Wayne: But are there other things, other tasks

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Lynda Wayne: And I'll talk about topics and approaches. Okay, thanks, Dennis. Other… I mean, there's… but this is specifically what are the actual things that we as a group can achieve? Other thoughts on… on what you'd like to get done here?

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Lynda Wayne: All right, well, we'll consider that a starting point. We can always, oh, Josh, yes?

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): You had started a list of questions and concerns at, like, an online Excel list that.

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Lynda Wayne: Correct.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): we all have. I think having…

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): aggregating our statewide concerns, and then passing those to Steve and Sue.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): and getting feedback. That seems super important to me.

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Lynda Wayne: Okay, so building on that, what do you guys want to talk about, and…

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Lynda Wayne: I think that those two things dovetail nicely. We've got a list of topics that people wanted to talk about. We may not be able to address all of it, but I think that's a great starting point.

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Lynda Wayne: I will probably move those… what I'll do is… well, I'll talk to you in a minute, but I think… great point. We're going to build upon and incorporate those topics.

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Lynda Wayne: So, we drafted a registry. It's out there if you want to look at it, but I thought this was the easier way to see it.

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Lynda Wayne: And the registry basically is just a, you know, good old spreadsheet.

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Lynda Wayne: Give us a title and a topic.

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Lynda Wayne: Give us a brief description of it.

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Lynda Wayne: And then tell us what format it is. Is it just an informational, educational website? Is it an actual online lesson, a more formal, like, training material, tutorial?

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Lynda Wayne: Are you developing instructor-led materials that other folks could utilize? Is it a handout or a document, such as that physician paper?

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Lynda Wayne: And what's a little odd here is I went ahead and incorporated, also, the format may be a topic of interest. There are no materials developed yet, but here's a topic that I want to talk about. And then we also have an option to come with other. So, again, just trying to get a sense, you know, what is the format of the existing material, or what is the topic?

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Lynda Wayne: Is it available to the public with requests upon request registration, internal use only? Is there a website

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Lynda Wayne: And, if available, what organization is doing this, and who are the point of contacts, and then comments. I wanted to keep it as simple as possible.

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Lynda Wayne: I do want to say this is not just states. I think this is federal agencies, this is private sector folks, so this is not anything we want to limit to just states.

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Lynda Wayne: But are there additional information or actions you think that we should be capturing at this time? Is this a good first start?

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Lynda Wayne: And then we can certainly go back and add information as needed. If you were going to inventory, you know, what are the education materials out there, is there other stuff that would be on your list?

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Tom Mueller (MassGIS): I would say, this is Tom again, sorry to be a pain. I would say there would be something in there about either, like, software needed.

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Tom Mueller (MassGIS): Is this particular resource going… you're gonna have to use GIS software, Pro, QGIS? Is it strictly off the web? Because, I think that will be important. Again, I hate to do this, put my educator's cap on. That's gonna help with educators trying to figure out

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Tom Mueller (MassGIS): how maybe they can utilize some of these resources. Probably others, but I'm just thinking as far as educators.

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Lynda Wayne: I think that's a great idea. What are the software requirements?

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Lynda Wayne: Or even software association, I mean, is it specific to a certain application?

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Lynda Wayne: Great.

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Lynda Wayne: And I think Josh is getting that, too, the platform codes. I see that as well.

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Lynda Wayne: All right, so we can certainly amend that, made up before I go. So…

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Lynda Wayne: I guess the next step is just to start this registry. I hate to use the word inventory, but I'm going to an inventory. What I will do is I will update it with the software requirements and associations, and then I will send it out to the 3DHP FTN interest group.

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Lynda Wayne: And hopefully we can start collecting information from you all. And again, these are things that you're working on, things that you want to work on. I should probably put in progress under availability, too, or in development, or… or something like that, development status.

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Lynda Wayne: And, if nothing else, at first, just being able to look at that and say, oh, I see that they're working on this, I should give, you know.

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Lynda Wayne: Tom a call, and see what they're working on, and see what they're thinking, as far as they go. Yes, Josh?

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): Not to open a can of worms, but have… how do you feel about,

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): private companies, listing resources in here. Now, I'm only saying that because I've been working with Esri and Archhydro as a solution. That is a paid software, and, you know, I appreciate that's a… you know, I view it as a private-public partnership, but

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): I could also see vendors coming in and saying, hey, we can do stuff for you, and calling that a resource. So I just was… it's maybe shades of gray, but it's something to consider.

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Lynda Wayne: Oh, absolutely. I hope I said that a few minutes ago. My perspective is, if somebody has… I don't care, that, yeah, I think there's a lot of insight. Obviously, our private sector partners have a lot of technical insight. They also have a lot of insight as far as how clients are using these tools, so I, you know, I, for one, let's hear if there's any naysayers. Anybody have concerns about

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Lynda Wayne: Including, You know,

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Lynda Wayne: Private sector, oriented or developed materials.

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Lynda Wayne: Sounds like we have consensus, just, you know, if you've got something, put it out there.

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Lynda Wayne: All right, well, you're going to continue to hear about this. As I said, we'll send out a message with the registry, and we'll start that dialogue going. I'm also going to prompt as we get things in there, I think it would be good to prompt folks to kind of give us updates on their… where they are in their resources.

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Lynda Wayne: And hopefully it's just not poor Tennessee saying, hey, what are you guys doing? Is it ready yet for the rest of us to use?

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Lynda Wayne: and just pinging with others, and, doing some outreach. So, that'll… that'll be my next task as we move forward, and

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Lynda Wayne: Before we move to the state updates, I just wanted to… any other questions, comments?

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Lynda Wayne: Ideas?

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Lynda Wayne: Well, thank you all. That was really good input, I appreciate it.

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Lynda Wayne: So let's get to our state update. Steve, I see that you're on the call. You want to tell us what's going on in Indiana?

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): Absolutely. Sorry for the delay. I'm usually not on Zoom, so… Yeah, so we are, kind of exploring what 3DHP is going to look like in Indiana, and I appreciate you putting the bullets here on the slide, because I don't have to go find them. No, I have them pulled up, too.

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): So we're in… currently, our big activity is that we're currently collecting QL1 8-point per square meter LiDAR, in three stages. We just finished off the first tier, which is the center part of the state. We'll collect the eastern part of the state next year, and the following year, we will collect the large western part of the state.

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): And so we're kind of approaching this as, this is our opportunity to organize with our stakeholders and try to figure out how to pay for a future 3DHP statewide project, either in chunks.

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): which is probably what we're going to end up doing, or in a bigger project. I think we're likely to, in our next funding biennium, do a priority project or two in some hydrologic units, and then move on to complete the rest of it in the following biennium, because of the way that state funding works.

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): Right? We're also, in addition to kind of doing the strategy part of things, we're also kind of talking about best practices with other states, and also with vendors.

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): And some things that we've learned that are probably not a surprise to states who are far ahead of us in this process is that, you know, you can reduce costs by having some of this

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): Water flow data in advance, like culverts, right? And also figuring out what you want to do with urban stormwater runoff.

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): In terms of your 3DHP data. And, you know, our… we've been talking with vendors, but also our neighboring states, because, Ohio and, Kentucky have both found, interesting things on the funding side of things, like county engineers are often really

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): interested in 3DHP in our neck of the woods, and so we might start reaching out to talk to some of them. We are considering moving to a smaller catchment size above the USGS base spec, because that matches our local resolution NHD data.

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): And our Department of Natural Resources, especially in the Division of Water there, they really find that data quite useful in, you know, understanding flooding and also in flood mitigation kind of work. And then.

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): We are exploring what this local resolution AHD data might mean for a larger project in the state. We might have to discard it, we might be able to use some aspects of it,

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): But, basically, we're in the organization stage, so hopefully that wasn't too long. I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have.

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): That's about it.

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Sue Buto - USGS: Lynda, are you still on your… if you are, you're on mute.

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Lynda Wayne: I am talking away.

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Lynda Wayne: Does anybody have any comments or questions, or suggestions for Steve? Please just feel free to chime in.

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Lynda Wayne: Thank you, Sue.

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Lynda Wayne: Anybody?

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Lynda Wayne: All right, well, thank you for keeping us updated on… and, definitely questions that I think other folks are looking at as well. Steve, did you want to ask something?

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Steve Aichele - USGS: Well, it seemed like there was some dead air, so I thought I'd throw one at it.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: One thing that we might think about, when you're comparing to your previous 6-acre catchment threshold, you know, that was just… that was… every 6 acres gets some kind of flow path.

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): Yeah.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: I mean, we're really focused on

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Steve Aichele - USGS: trying to be focused on channels.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: But there isn't necess… it'd be interesting to see, maybe in a couple pilot areas, how those two thresholds compare.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: Right? Like, it's possible, it's at least…

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Steve Aichele - USGS: Certainly, regionally, I think it's possible you get places where what we're producing is actually more detailed than what you had before, and it may be less detailed in some other parts of the state.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: Alright.

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): Yeah, it's interesting, because I think it'd be really regional, like you say, Steve. Southern Indiana might have more detail, actually, and then you get to northern Indiana, which is super flat, and there's not a lot of channelization outside of what you can… what, you know, you'd expect to see, and it might be very… you know, it might be…

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): more de… you know, less detailed. I… you know, it's… it's interesting, we…

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): not to belabor the point too much, but we did have a county, Hamilton County, Indiana, which is where Carmel is, just north of Indianapolis, did a

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): 3DHP project on their own with Dewberry as their vendor, and…

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): there's some really interesting insights that came out of that that have helped our… informed some of our decision-making and discuss… really probably inform more of our discussions, because we're still in the decision-making process on 3DHP strategy, right?

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Steve Aldrich (Indiana Geog Info Office): Yeah, good point, thank you.

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Lynda Wayne: Alright, any more questions for Steve?

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Lynda Wayne: Arianne, are you on the call?

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Erienne Davis (Iowa DNR): Yes, I am.

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Lynda Wayne: Excellent.

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Erienne Davis (Iowa DNR): Hello, I'm Arianne Davis with the Iowa DNR. For Iowa, we currently have a,

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Erienne Davis (Iowa DNR): Two pilot projects for two, watersheds that are going on.

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Erienne Davis (Iowa DNR): Kind of in the middle of the state, North Raccoon River, and an upper watershed of the Iowa River. Those are… have been collected and generated and are currently under review. So, that is where we are at the moment.

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Lynda Wayne: Thank you. Anything, you're looking forward to, or that have… issues that have come up, or items you're dealing with?

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Erienne Davis (Iowa DNR): I'm only tangentially involved in that, so not that I have been made aware of.

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Lynda Wayne: Okay, great.

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Lynda Wayne: Thank you.

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Lynda Wayne: And unfortunately, the Louisiana GIS Council has their monthly meeting the exact same time as our meeting, so Amy sent this information along.

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Lynda Wayne: And, she asked me to share it with you. First of all, the state has QL1 LIDAR statewide, and they're trying… the council itself is trying to establish a hydrography community.

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Lynda Wayne: That will coordinate state 3DHP development, and they're obviously going to include state agencies. Right now, LOT… their transportation department is their lead mapping… topographic mapping agency in the state.

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Lynda Wayne: And they're engaging their parishes, and the good news is, they think have one potential DCA application in development that's going to have some local funding.

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Lynda Wayne: And of course, they're going to reach out to other stakeholders, but, she just wanted to share, they were taking this approach of,

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Lynda Wayne: They're getting the ball rolling with statewide coordination. So, I'm sure if Amy was here, she'd love to get your recommendations on do's and don'ts, but if you have strong thoughts, please reach out to her and let her know.

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Lynda Wayne: Alright, well,

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Lynda Wayne: Just wanted to touch base, it's our last slide, some upcoming activities. As you know, there's the, Esri Hydrography Stewards Meetup.

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Lynda Wayne: We will not have a 3DHP call in July, because we will have the USGS Hydrography community call. Again, if you want to get direct call-in information for that call, you need to go to the website I provided and join the community.

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Lynda Wayne: And then August 14th, that'll be the last day for annual conference registration is open, and that's the last day for early registration. We hope to see you all in early November in Montana.

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Lynda Wayne: August 25th, we will have a Hydrography Stewart Community call, and hopefully Jane and Josh can catch up on all things they learned at the,

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Lynda Wayne: user conference. Again, you need to join that community to get the call-in information.

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Lynda Wayne: And then we'll be back on the 22nd with an interest group meeting. Not that you won't be hearing from us before then. We're going to continue with the interest group outreach and a few other things. We're going to be doing some outreach to states that don't have a lot of activity right now, so we'll be doing… if you're on the call, you're probably not going to be getting that phone call.

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Lynda Wayne: Contact information, we introduced the key folks on the project, but if you needed to contact anybody.

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Lynda Wayne: we wanted to give, provide that information for you here. So with that said, any questions, comments, any other… anything, I mean, we're open to other discussion topics. If anybody has anything they wanted to share, go ahead, Josh.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): I'm like Steve, I'm filling space, but Phil had done some interesting work with a web map that was collecting, kind of, projects, and I was curious if there's intention of keeping that going.

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Lynda Wayne: Yes, and you might have seen Phil had a note up earlier saying that, you know, we need to update a few things, and I think that that's one of the things.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): So there are plans to keep that going.

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Lynda Wayne: Right, I've been talking with USGS. We may not have the exact same approach, but we definitely want to, highlight activities, and who's doing what, or a point of contact in neighboring states, those kinds of things. Yep.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): And so, the other question I had, he had done something kind of cool where he… I'm messing up the terms, but he kind of created a chatbot kind of thing where he took a bunch of our information and put it in, and I was curious if that is also ongoing.

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Lynda Wayne: That is still at the website. I am gonna let,

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Lynda Wayne: I think USGS would like to maybe comment on that. They've had some concerns about that being hosted at the 3DHP site, per se. So, Sue, I'll let you address that.

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Sue Buto - USGS: Yeah, we probably will, deprecate that, Josh, mostly because we do have some concerns about, you know, AI pulling information, and I know it was trained on certain, resources, but there are some

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Sue Buto - USGS: concerns about, using… using that method, and federal government use of AI, and all the things, so… Gotcha. Yeah.

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Sue Buto - USGS: For the moment, we'll probably pull that for now.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): Awesome. Good to know. Thank you.

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Lynda Wayne: And Phil, I know you're on the call, you and I can talk, and maybe we can find a great home for that, because as Josh is saying, it's something he's found useful, so…

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): I… useful and interesting, let me… yeah, I…

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Lynda Wayne: Okay, okay.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): Phil… Phil was opening my eyes to the possibilities, and it… but it does seem… I agree with Sue, unless it's maintained with accurate info, then it… it becomes…

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): Less helpful than more helpful, right?

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Phil Worrall (IN - Retired): Right, it's… yeah, this is Phil. It's, it's dated now, but, it's, you know, maybe about, 7 or 8 months old data, so yeah, it's…

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Phil Worrall (IN - Retired): it needs a refresh. My… ultimately, my hope was that Esri would be doing that, baked into ArcGIS Pro, but…

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Phil Worrall (IN - Retired): But…

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): It's interesting you say that, because… Yeah, we are…

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): I'm working with the Archhydro team to think about developing something similar, specific to the Esri tools, and… but it's… it would be very much Archhydro, less…

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): you know, you had some info about 3DHP in general, and…

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): fundraising and things like that. The Esri, I don't think, would be… have that angle.

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Tom Mueller (MassGIS): Yeah, and Phil, this is Tom Mueller. It really helped, when I had to call these municipalities to get their stormwater data. It just sort of gives me some things

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Tom Mueller (MassGIS): that weren't upfront that you'd think about, or why we would need your stormwater data connected to 3DHP. It was a… it was a nice little ace in my… up my sleeve sometimes, talking to some municipalities, so thank you so much for that.

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Lynda Wayne: Alright, Phil, you and I are gonna talk, okay?

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Phil Worrall (IN - Retired): Sounds good.

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Lynda Wayne: All right, thank you all, and thanks for bringing those items up, Josh, I appreciate it. And I… no, I need 10 more of you and Tom, so… Oh, yes, and John wanted me to mention, I should put it in there, John, come on off mute, kind of tell us about the… encourage people to come to the reception.

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John S. Jordan, CAE, NSGIC: Yeah, we're having… NASIC is going to be sponsoring their third year reception at the Union Tap and Kitchen on Monday, July 13th, beginning at 5.30 till 7. So, if any of you are going to be attending, I know Joshua will be.

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John S. Jordan, CAE, NSGIC: Please, come to our reception, and, you can mingle with your colleagues.

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John S. Jordan, CAE, NSGIC: And, talk to other people, so we're excited to have that. We're also having an exhibit booth, so please stop by our exhibit booth. The exhibit hall will be open Tuesday through Thursday.

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John S. Jordan, CAE, NSGIC: Of that week, of the, user conference. That's it. Thank you, Lynda.

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Lynda Wayne: Thank you, John!

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Lynda Wayne: And continuing Tom and Josh contributing, Josh, do you want to address Tom's comment about, your work with 3DHP linear and referencing? I mean, we've got extra time, so…

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): You need extra time if you're gonna let me talk, right? If I'm gonna come off mute. Absolutely, yeah. So, we've made some pretty good progress, with ArcHydro tools.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): We have, several new tools that are available in Archaidro, that I can't remember, actually, if they require a 3D analyst or spatial analyst license. I don't think they do, but I can't confirm, but we have

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): At least 7 or 8 tools that will help you build

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): a network from your elevation-derived hydro, or the 3DHP data. So I've… we've been testing it on both, and it… it's a pretty slick little system. What we're missing is some… the… the walkthrough guide that makes it really easy. We have…

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): We have some material, but I want to make it even more simple.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): At the next release, which will be coming out during the UC, we have some snapping tools. And the snapping tools, I will admit, are not going to be perfect for everyone, but these, I think, are really going to get you 90% of the way to linking your existing event data to

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): to your elevation-derived Hydro or 3DHP.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): And so, we also have to work on the documentation for that. So I… we're… if you're at the UC, I'll be talking about that at several different times, and we're really… we do need the feedback, but the… I know it's hard to get feedback until the tools come out, but I think in the next month, for sure, we will have

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): Those, those, the final release of… or not the final, but the next release of those tools.

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Tom Mueller (MassGIS): Awesome. Thank you so much for your hard work.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): Oh, my pleasure. And, you know, to be clear, those tools are meant to be shared. If you're not familiar with Archhydro, those… it's a package that's free if you have Esri already,

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): as a product, and they are Python, so you can… it's exposed. If you don't want to use them, and you just want to use the Python, you can just grab the Python. So, we're trying to… this worked as a good solution for us, because I do not want to be involved in software management, and every time there's a .NET update, or an Arc Info, or Arc Pro update.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): or web update. I don't want to have to have anyone on my team. So this is… that's kind of why this is a good public-private partnership. But happy to, talk in more detail, or… I did share the first

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): linear reference, dynamic segmentation. This is a 60-page document that covers the first set of tools that we've released. I shared that in the interest of the communities, but if you don't… can't find them, just let me know.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): the NISJ community, right? Lynda, am I saying that correctly?

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Lynda Wayne: You are, but I had outreach from a couple of folks trying to find that document, and it's actually in the hydrography stewards community, which a lot of people don't have access to.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): Oh, I can post it in the other one.

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Lynda Wayne: Yeah, can you move it to the library of the 3DHP? And for those of you that aren't familiar, when you log into the MyNSGIC and go to the 3DHP, interest group, there is a library there, and Josh and some others, they've posted some good resources, so yeah, we'll get Josh to move that document.

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Lynda Wayne: Not move it, but post another version of it in the 3DHP group. That's… that's great.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): Yeah, and as soon as we get the snapping, details, we'll post those as well, and that was kind of why I was asking about Phil's AI, because we're getting to the point where there's so many different tools and so many different resources

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): I don't know about all of you, but I even use the Google AI results when I'm looking for Esri solutions, instead of going to Esri. So, I could see in the future, there's just so… so… so many different angles and avenues about this topic, it's sometimes hard to keep it straight, but I do have… I'll have that PDF available, in the community.

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Lynda Wayne: Now, this is not the link that Greg's provided, right?

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Lynda Wayne: In the chat?

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): Let me check. I don't… Think so, because…

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Lynda Wayne: just click on it and say, okay, but we'll… we'll have that. Thank you, Greg, for contributing.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): Yeah, that's… oh, that's about Archhydro, which is great. The PDF that I'm sharing has not yet been fully approved by Esri to get published, but I've been given the okay to share it publicly. So, it's not yet available in the GIS for Water Resources, I don't believe, but it will.

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Lynda Wayne: Oh, okay.

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Joshua Greenberg (He/Him): Yeah.

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Lynda Wayne: So, again, since we have a few minutes, Rick says that Rick Moore doesn't have a, from Minnesota, does not have a mic.

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Lynda Wayne: But, he was asking, for those of you that have QL1 data, are you using half meter cell resolution to create your data, or are you using one meter cell resolution? Their statewide seamless DEM is half meter.

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Lynda Wayne: And he was wondering what other states are doing that have QL1.

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Lynda Wayne: So if anybody can… can… can talk to the… Sue, did you want to contribute?

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Sue Buto - USGS: Yeah, I'll hop in on that and say that the, 3DHP, or the elevation-derived Hydrography specification, specifies a 1 meter DEM, because it's a national product. We need to have a DEM that works everywhere, whether you have QL1 or QL2.

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Sue Buto - USGS: data, and I think we've, we find that the results from,

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Sue Buto - USGS: 1 meter, resolution DEM are… are quite good, and we think we're mapping the majority of channels that you would see either, regardless. I don't know, Steve, if you have any comments on that.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: Sure, I have a comment, so we have time. Well, I think the… I think the… one of the things that's interesting about this is you actually get

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Steve Aichele - USGS: you sort of lose signal as you get more detail in the data set.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: there's…

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Steve Aichele - USGS: there's more noise to filter in the half meter than in the one meter. You know, you think of just even obstructions in the channel, you know.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: tufts of grass that weren't removed, or… or, you know, a big rock or something. You get somewhat different results,

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Steve Aichele - USGS: When you do that, and it's… it's…

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Steve Aichele - USGS: It's definitely a case where, you know, maybe not only is the juice not worth the squeeze, but the, it may actually

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Steve Aichele - USGS: Be worse off than working with the 1 meter.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: There's some… some element of thought that maybe there's… they would actually be better off work with a somewhat coarser resolution even than the 1 meter. But that is sort of the national standard for 3DEP, and so we wanted to work in that framework rather than, you know, reinventing a whole other national elevation model.

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Lynda Wayne: All right, well, there's some good discussion going on. Josh from Arkansas provided a link to his status viewer, where they're using the half meter, but… and then Alex in Massachusetts said they're also dealing with that noise issue.

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Lynda Wayne: So good discussion, and, you know, I… again, discussions like this, please bring this up on the 3DHP interest group listserv. If you have questions like this, yeah, this is more than just meeting announcements. Put it out there and get the dialogue going. That's what that, discussion list is for. So, please, please, please,

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Lynda Wayne: Have these kinds of conversations.

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Lynda Wayne: All right, well, I see that we are just about on the hour. I have changed the meeting time to one and a half hour. My thought, though, is if we can get to,

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Lynda Wayne: if we can get through the actual meeting within an hour, and then have a little bit of flex time for those that are able to sit on and have discussion.

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Lynda Wayne: I don't know, I don't know you at Sue or Steve, do you want to respond? Phil has a question about, the higher resolution DEM may fail.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: Yeah, I was actually just typing a response, but yes, it… not only may it fail, it actually probably will fail.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: So that's… There you go.

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Lynda Wayne: And then Brian wants to know if you're going to publish any guidance on this.

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Lynda Wayne: Other than a specification that says don't do it.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: Yeah, no, I think the guidance is use the one meter.

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Steve Aichele - USGS: Right? I mean, that, like, that's… that's the standard That's the standard for…

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Steve Aichele - USGS: the next… for the next many years for 3DHP. There will be… yeah, just like in 3DEP, there's sort of an evolution as we transition into more of a maintenance phase. There may be a transition

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Steve Aichele - USGS: 10 years, 15 years down the line when we get through this, but right now, it's a 1 meter DEM.

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Lynda Wayne: Good discussion.

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Lynda Wayne: You think so, Brian, I don't know. Keep pulling you back in, buddy.

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Lynda Wayne: All right, thank you all, great meeting, thanks for the input, watch your mailboxes for information about the education materials, and also, well, for those of you that… we'll have some outreach as well. So, thank you all, and I hope that you have a great

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Lynda Wayne: month, and I hope that you all, many of you are able to convene in San Diego next month.

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Sue Buto - USGS: Thanks, Lynda.

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Lynda Wayne: Bye, guys!